Jonathan Van Ness & Dax Shepard Have Tense Conversation Over Trans Rights

Jonathan Van Ness was brought to tears during their appearance on Dax Shephard‘s Armchair Expert podcast.

The Queer Eye star was a guest on the program and was taken back when the conversation turned to a tense debate over trans rights.

Keep reading to find out more…

The debate over trans rights came after Jonathan and Dax were discussing if The New York Times was more left or right leaning, to which Jonathan argued that it was a lot more right than people think because of the paper’s content about gender-affirming care.

Dax then argued that the paper is “challenging” ideas that teens should be allowed to take hormones and blockers.

“Some people are very uncomfortable about teenagers transitioning,” he shared. “How do we know that the person’s not gonna change their mind? Then there’s another counterargument. If they kill themselves, then that’s really f***ing permanent. … To even question it makes you an enemy. I don’t think that’s the way forward.”

Jonathan, surprised at Dax‘s stance, admitted that it was like “I’m talking to my dad.”

“There’s just so many things that are so much more important and we’re over here being like, ‘Well, there’s legitimate concerns [about transgender athletes],’” Jonathan said. “All I’m saying is what we know about misinformation and disinformation is when you have an outsized reaction to something, there’s a good chance that you’re being exposed to misinformation and disinformation. And a lot of the rhetoric around the anti-trans backlash does have a lot of misinformation and disinformation in it.”

Dax continued to fight back against what Jonathan was saying, with the Queer Eye star sharing more of their disappointment surrounding the conversation when it comes to people who think they’re allies, when they are not.

“I’m a nonbinary f***ing trans person. When I talk to my dad or people who say similar things, it’s hard to be cool through that,” they continued. “I’m not calling you a transphobe. You can not be transphobic and still have thoughts that espouse trans misogyny and espouse transphobic ideologies or beliefs and not be transphobic.”

Dax did apologize, and said that he did not intend to start a debate about trans rights. It was then that Jonathan shed tears over it.

“I could just cry because I’m so tired of having to fight for little kids because they just want to be included,” they shared. “I wish that people were as passionate about little kids being able to be included or grow up as they were about fictitious women’s fairness in sports. I have to tell you I am very tired.”

Listen to the full conversation below: